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Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:58:00 - [1] Greetings! Since Inventing Ships did not turn out to be as profitable as I hoped it to be...I now have a character that is able to build a lot of T2 ships...but lacks the prints to do so cause its just not profitable enough to invent most of em ;) And since I don't like wasting things...especially not skills...I decided it'd be a good choice to buy some T2 ship BPOs and start producing T2 ships for a profit... I know of a few t2 prints for sale or possibly for sale atm and I have a few T2 part suppliers standing by as well... So the only thing missing right now is enough ISK to actually buy the BPOs ;) And this is where YOU come into play... I did some calculations and I can guarantee a 4% monthly profits return on this investment, possibly even more... 20% of any excess profits will be handed out on top of the 4%, the other 80% will be used for reinvestment. I will be invested in this operation with a 22 million SP Indutrial/Science Empire Carebear Character and about 35 Billion ISK in assets (pre-bought build parts, T1 BPOs, Minerals, ships, etc.etc.) and liquid cash... As a first step I was considering to raise the funds by 200% or 70 Billion ISK... Each bond will cost 1 million ISK so there will be 70 000 Bonds for sale... With the BPOs that could be acquired a monthy profits return of 4% can be pretty much guranteed (worst case scenario calculations)... Starting the operation 1st of December the first return payments would be done 1st of January (or second for 1st is a holiday :D) If there are any questions...post here ( please don't troll with "scam" "scam" stuff, I've been playing for 2 years now and always lived up to all my business deals) If needed I can also provide a linky to one of my previous events I did...let me check where it is :D http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=491435 Here we go...had a lot of prizes in it and I gave em all out again :) Post questions and orders here please :)
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:27:00 - [2] Edited by: Siri Blue on 27/11/2007 23:30:06 Originally by: Yarden Tajj I for one would like to know the following: - What BPO's did you have in mind (any particular ships?) As I am a strong supporter of the Gallente Federation, I'd concentrate on Gallente ship BPOs... Originally by: Yarden Tajj - How long would this run for? Many years I hope ;) I'm here to stay in the game... Originally by: Yarden Tajj - Buy back option and if so after what time and for how many percent of the original bond price As for buyback options... After two years the buyback would be 100% or original price...if you want to sell the bonds earlier, you'd have to find another buyer or talk to me about it... After one year (the return has been 48%, 60% if you reinvested the money) I would offer a buyback option at 75% of original price... So basically this is supposed to last at least 2 years... But you can pull out after one year with profit still but largely reduced... (only 23%/35% if you pull out early) I might offer other deals should my cashflow go up faster than expected though... Originally by: Yarden Tajj Most IPO's aim for about 6.5 to 7% return every month do you think this would be achievable with yours? I plan to reinvest 80% of the surplus profits into more BPOs...so at first the return per month will probably hover around 4 to 5 % but the actual value of the bonds will go up (and thus the buyback options as the reinvestment will be counted on the existing bonds) meaning the base value of the bonds will go up concerning the buyback options after 1 and 2 years... I hope I wasn't too confusing there lol
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:13:00 - [3] Hm, well...as I understood it CCP won't touch T2 BPOs... They do screw around with Invention though, yes... As the BPOs have a better material level than any invented ships though there always is a profit span there on the BPOs...so I'm not too worried about that... As a security...well, I'll be invested with a lot of assets and ISK as well (as I also want to make a profit) so that should ensure that I'll make the best out of the invested money...and should I have to disband the operation early (can't think of a reason atm)...the T2 BPOs are there as a security, selling them and paying out the iskies...
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Shuan Jedai Firstly, what is the point in investing this for 4% return, with the first buy back a year ahead of us ? You can get 10% monthly return in Fury Bank and be able to cash out within a week ? Can that Fury Bank of yours pay out EVERYONE that invested in them within a week? I somehow doubt it... And 4% return is the worst case scenario of dropping ship prices and rising building costs! If everything goes well 7-10% will be easily archievable...I just did not want to make potenitally false claims and be called a scammer later!
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:28:00 - [5] Um...I don't want to sound rude but it'd be nice if you wouldn't advertise your own business in someone else's thread
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:00:00 - [6] Hm...I didn't expect this kind of hostility...
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:07:00 - [7] Of course, and I'm here to answer most of them
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Newbear FONDS! I don't care what your selling but I want to buy FONDS! A bundle of FONDS, a flock of FONDS, lets be FONDS! Um...yeah....
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Munafo Actica Wow 70 billion ISK! I only wanted to secure loans of between 5-8 billion ISK but thought even that was being cheeky for someone relatively unknown. Well if you look up my standings you will see that I've been a busy busy carebear both in empire and 0.0... Which means I don't need any loans to raise 5-8 bil ISK, I can make that myself pretty fast... I wanted to aim one dimension higher...so I do...
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Munafo Actica Wow 70 billion ISK! I only wanted to secure loans of between 5-8 billion ISK but thought even that was being cheeky for someone relatively unknown. I know Siri, I like Siri, and I would trust Siri. But my confidence in Siri would not go as far as 10b+. Also I would probably like it if Siri took some time out to work out the details more thoroughly, if only for community confidence, so that many questions would be answered upfront. Still like Siri though. I know this needs fine tuning...and you are welcome to give me advice how to make it look better and thorough... I don't have much time today...but will definitely work more on it the next days ;)

Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:05:00 - [11] \o/ yay Thanks to Morning Maniac and Oscar Kain for your investments and your trust I didn't sleep well tonight and can't concentrate well but I started to overwork this a bit I adjusted the Buyback options to allow a much quicker withdrawl of funds. The weekly max Buyback options of 500 million ISK represent what I can easily carebear myself within 5 days of playing. I hope that is more to the liking of the "pros" here
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Shadarle Where to begin... You say you guarantee 4% per month. This is tiny, as you should know. You then pay out 20% of profits you make. Lets analyze this 20% number. T2 BPO's generally sell for 12 months of production value. This means you, in theory, will make 100% profit over 12 months. This is 8.33% per month. 20% of this is 1.666%. This would make 5.666% per month. If you do indeed run for 2 years then the T2 BPO profit doubles effectively to 3.332%, bringing the total to 7.332%. Of course this is all theoretical numbers, prices could go up/down, you could get them cheaper, invention could really hurt T2 production more after patch or it could effect it less. We also have to decide if this reward is worth the risk. 70 billion is a TON of money to trust to someone who has never run an IPO and does not have a major presence or reputation on these forums. Then add in the lack of payback for a year which would only be 70% anyways. You need to clear up what that 80% of profits will be used for. Is it going to be held by the corp and still belong to the corp (thus increasing share price) to handle buybacks or are you pocketing it so you can buy back shares if needed and if not needed you'll use it for your own purposes? It might be a decent enough IPO for a well respected/trusted person to release, tho the buyback is just bad as it is now. I think if Ricdic, Shar, DS, or many others here posted this exact thing it would get some heat... but people would trust them enough that they'd prob go for it in a very slightly changed form. You'll have to work a bit harder imo. 20% of the surplus ISK will be given out on top ot the 4%, right. I decided that another 20% would be withheld as a reserve should any unexpected circumstances hit and the remaining 60% would be used to buy additional assets thus effectively increasing the value of the venture and its potential profits. Should everything go well and I don't need the 20% reserve to pay out dividends, etc...I'd like to claim that small part of the surplus profits as a salary at the end of a one year period. The 60% reinvested would increase the profit margin on the venture over time and should I try to buyback more bonds than people want to sell...I would adjust the buyback option accordingly (calculating the 60% surplus profit reinvested into the Buyback price). So should people wait for the venture to be successful enough to allow me to buy back bonds, they will effectively get 4% plus 80% of all the surplus profits.
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:32:00 - [13] Edited by: Siri Blue on 29/11/2007 12:34:44 Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 28/11/2007 17:24:31 You're not going to get many investors until you convince people that you can give them 7% per month or better, otherwise they're effectively giving you free isk to the tune of 3% per month. You've said that the figures you've got are assuming the worst-case scenario - what are your optimal and mid-range estimates? Slighty optimistic estimates are 7% monthly profits, which would result in 4.6% monthly payouts, 0.6% reserve accumulation and 1.8% reinvestments (which then results in a higher Buyback price when special Buyback offers are being made)... Optimal results would be 10-12% monthy profits but I don't think this is likely to happen with the new Trinity changes to invention. Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro [ Would you be prepared to lock down the BPOs in a corp where only a trusted third party had the necessary access to remove them? (this would involve creating a separate corp to issue shares). Ideally, the trusted third party would receive all the isk raised from share purchases and use it to buy the BPOs and would also remain in the corp so as to be able to reimburse shareholders in the event of a bus splat or similar. How would you transport the BPOs to the production site? Can you offer any security in the event of the BPOs being converted to max run BPCs, or removed, or made redundant via further improvements to invention? Most ship BPOs in particular are going to become a lot less profitable with Trinity, because inventors' costs will fall (due to the improved decryptor stats). Have you considered this in your calculations? No, I don't give out shares, these are bonds for a completely secure investment unless CCP completely devalues T2 BPOs which CCP does not with Trinity and the next patch is a long way off. Also...decryptors will be used for the new ship types where no BPOs exist and if decryptors become cheaper and more available by removing them from static complexes...remains to be seen.
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:43:00 - [14] I will concentrate on Gallente Ship BPOs as said already and yes, I have potential sellers at hand... So the production could start a few days after the BPO purchases... I actually expect BPOs to drop in price again, thats why I want to raise the funds to buy them when they are being dropped on the market... And again I calculated with worst case scenarios of falling ship prices to still be able to provide the 4% profit payouts. Any payouts done before profits actually come in will be covered by my personal funds and only paid back later when profits come in, so the full sum can be used for investments.
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:26:00 - [15] sigh You know, I prefer playing the game INGAME and earning ISK instead of running numbers for a few selected people that think they are the Official CCP stockmarket control squad so that they may **** off over a few pages of fancy looking numbers. I prefer to actually do business over doing hypotetical calculations about how the effect of a bag of rice falling off a hauler in minmatar space would be on my venture. That said, I have monitored the T2 ship market for a long time and been busy on it as well with inventing, building and selling a lot of ships. And I've always come out with a profit, whatever I did in Eve. And yes, I am in a bad mood, my granddad died last week, I didn't sleep tonight, my ex is making my stomache ache and Ricdic, you are...annoying me, if you don't like it, don't buy it, easy as that. I said advice how to make it better is welcome, just running your mouth is not!
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:55:00 - [16] Initial Investment for known BPOs I want to buy are about 50 billion ISK, the rest is not yet planned out. On that 50 Billion Investment expected monthly profits (worst case) are 2.1 Billion ISK. (4.2%) Current profits would be 3.15 bil per month. (6.3%) The remaining ~40 Bil (20 of my own ISK) are there for opportunity buys within the first 6 weeks. Need more numbers?
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:02:00 - [17] Gallente
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:42:00 - [18] I provided more numbers 3 posts above and I definitely won't say which BPO(s) I'm going to buy, there are far too many BPO resellers out there atm. And as for the business plan... I get ISK, I buy BPO, I buy parts, I produce, I sell ships, I make profits, I give out profits to investors. In the end I buy back bonds. What else do you need?
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:11:00 - [19] I did do that several posts above... Initial Investment for known BPOs I want to buy are about 50 billion ISK, the rest is not yet planned out. On that 50 Billion Investment expected monthly profits (worst case) are 2.1 Billion ISK. (4.2%) Current profits would be 3.15 bil per month. (6.3%) The remaining ~40 Bil (20 of my own ISK) are there for opportunity buys within the first 6 weeks. Need more numbers?
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:27:00 - [20] Thanks for your adive there... I can only repeat that my numbers are pretty much worst case scenario numbers for the next 12 months. I doubt worse case will hit though with the new ship designs coming in. And yes, I will be working on polishing this all...but not right now :)

Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Dr Slurm Well now that I can see there is no intention of creating any sort of decent business plan I am not inclined to invest. I would suggest others not chance the risk either. c'est la vive. Um, I said I will be working on the polishing, give me a little time
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:39:00 - [22] Ok...once again...I am giving out Bonds! Bonds are supposed to be low risk, low/medium profit investments. I'm not selling any IPO, I was just explaining (trying to) what I was going to do with the ISK put into my hands. I just wrote this to an interested investor: Well, I guarantee the 4% and the buyback with my own work, should the BPOs really lose value, I'll cover that with personally carebearing my ass off :/ Its a BOND after all, not a share, so there should be no risk for the investors... Well, the only real risk would be me scamming everyone but I don't see the reason why to destroy my reputation over silly Game money :/ Of course I know there are many scammers, so this point still remains a risk for investors of course but it is with every investment. Also 4% is the minimum profits and after 12+ months you get a 100% buyback option. As I said, I will try to make my venture description more shiney for you guys but I'm still giving out Bonds, which are supposed to be secure (as much as it can be in Eve that is)
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:58:00 - [23] sigh
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:07:00 - [24] Edited by: Siri Blue on 30/11/2007 13:07:33 Appearently some of you guys are at least as ignorant as I am... I said I will be working on it, but not "today" cause I am VERY tired and exhausted...and that was "yesterday"... Also, I did answer several questions and gave numbers about one specific Gallente ship BPO with expected returns on it. So saying that I don't try to answer questions is rather frustrating.
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:05:00 - [25] I don't know what people don't understand when I say, give me a little time Also the Eve forums just ate 50% of my overworked plan With these kinds of replies I kind of doubt this is worth my time but then I hope answers like the last one are just exceptions
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:09:00 - [26] API Key/s - Not Provided * Multiple Character Credit Check - No API so not provided Could you explain those two points Ricdic? :)
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:33:00 - [27] I'm giving it another try... I know not all points brought forward here have been worked on yet, so it is still a work in progress... Eve ISK Making Scheme MarkII: Gallente T2 BPOs Background: -Now 2 years of Eve experience û Eve addict -Siri Blue is my first and main character -Done T2 ship Invention for several months -Monitored the T2 ship market over several months -Good reputation for 2 years (no public IPOs yet) -Done ingme event with sponsors and prizes The idea: -Buy T2 ship BPOs with relatively low risk of devaluation through Invention -Build a solid T2 BPO base -Build T2 ships with relatively steady profit margins Why Gallente ships? -Gallente decryptors are being used to invent the new Jump Freighter based on the Obelisk, the most used Freighter in game -Gallente decryptors are being used to invent Exhumers, especially Hulks Conclusion: Gallente ship invention will stay more expensive than any other raceÆs ships, thus Gallente T2 ships will be less prone to suffer devaluation. Also so the fact that decryptors wonÆt be available from static complexes anymore could increase their prices instead of lowering cause of supposedly higher availability through exploration. Profits: According to my calculations and projections, I believe I can earn a monthly profit averaging at 7% of the total invested money , 6.25% will be distributed to shareholders on a monthly basis. 0.75% (or 25% of all profits above 4%) will be kept as a reserve and will eventually be my salary on a yearly basis. Volume: Total Volume of the Operation: approximately 100 Billion ISK Step 1: 30 000 Schemes for 1 Million ISK each will be given out I will buy another 20 000 Schemes for this first step of the operation. One high-value or 2 medium-value BPO will be bought and worked with. Step 2 will add another 50 000 Schemes and 20 000 for myself if things work out as projected after 3 months. Exit strategy: Buyback options: After 3 months invested: Buyback option at 80% After 6 months+ invested: Buyback option at 100% After 12 months+ invested: Buyback option at 105% All Buyback options require an advance notice of 1 week. Total Buybacks are limited to 500 million ISK per week. Additional special Buyback offers can apply. Starting the operation 1st of December the first return payments would be done 1st of January. Post questions and orders here please :)
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:39:00 - [28] @ Shadarle: Was a typo and I removed any reference to a second phase, that can be planned when phase one succeeds. Total volume of the operation is 50 Billion with 30 Billion given out in shares/bonds/schemes @ von Ulrich: I am 29, am a student and work part-time in a bar I might be a bit more emotional right now cause of personal reasons (which also result in a lack of sleep).
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Havok Pierce Much better, Siri. I'm interested in 200m worth of your shares, possibly more if you can get some form of investment security (security as in it can't easily be run off with). Ricdic, Riethe, quit sniping at each other in Siri's thread. Right now this character is handling the finances, accepting investments and paying out the dividends each month manually to the investors. The whole concept of the shared corporation with a third party in it to monitor things is new to me and I will look into it. If Ricdic stop harassing me, I might even chose him as a third party
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:03:00 - [30] Please try to stay on topic, thank you.

Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:11:00 - [31] For that clown comment I ask you to never post in my threads again. Thank you.
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:18:00 - [32] The first BPO stands ready to be bought now... If you want to give me a chance, the first investments would be best placed within the next few days. There will be other BPOs later I'm sure...so you can always invest (more) at a later point of time but I'd love to get this thing started ;)
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:55:00 - [33] Get your ass into Eve then, need to ask you something! :P

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